Joan of Arc vs. Lancelot Andrewes

Well, friends, after all the hype and all the anticipation and all the pageantry of the opening ceremonies (oh, did you miss that? Madonna sang “40 Days and 40 Nights”), Lent Madness 2012 is now upon us. Our first match-up is between a learned bishop and a young peasant girl born nearly 150 years apart. Sounding incongruous? Welcome to the beauty, intrigue, and mystery of the Lent Madness bracket.

The fate of these two saints is now in your hands with the winner destined to take on the victor of John Huss vs. Mary Magdalene in the Round of the Saintly Sixteen. But that’s getting way ahead of ourselves. Today, your task is to vote wisely and encourage everyone you know to get in the Lent Madness game.

Lancelot Andrewes (1555 – 1626), Bishop of Chichester, Ely, and later Winchester, is perhaps best known as the lead translator of the Old Testament books Genesis through 2Kings in the Authorized Version of the Bible (also known as the King James Bible because it was commissioned by King James I in 1604). An exceptionally learned man who mastered fifteen modern European languages in addition to six ancient ones, Andrewes was also a celebrated preacher who enjoyed the privilege of preaching Christmas (and other) sermons before Queen Elizabeth I and later King James I. At the same time, Andrewes was known to spend several hours a day in prayer. More than twenty years after his death, his private devotions – a collection of Scripture, thoughts and prayers written in Greek and Hebrew – were finally translated and published, and they are still in print.

Andrewes’ scholarly work was described by one biographer as “a coat of mail, strong but mobile.” His sermons earned him the description as “the star of preachers” and an “angel in the pulpit,” although Puritans disliked his frequent references and quotes in Latin and modern ears might find his manifold use of puns and wordplay odd at best and off-putting at worst. See, for example, his riff on Immanuel (God with us) and Immanu-hell (us without God) and Immanu-all (the happy result of the Nativity) preached on Christmas of 1614. His prayer life included the remembrance of whales, as evidenced by his Thursday prayers based on the Fifth Day of Creation from Genesis. Among Bishop Andrewes’ friends were George Herbert and Richard Hooker, and his feast day is celebrated on September 25th.

Collect for Lancelot Andrewes: O Lord and Father, our King and God, by whose grace the Church was enriched by the great learning and eloquent preaching of your servant Lancelot Andrewes, but even more by his example of biblical and liturgical prayer: Conform our lives, like his, to the image of Christ, that our hearts may love you, our minds serve you, and our lips proclaim the greatness of your mercy; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen.

–Penny Nash

Joan of Arc (1412 – 1431) is the patron of France and of soldiers. Born to peasant parents in the village of Domremy, Joan (or Jehanne, as she signed her name in French) began to hear the voices (and sometimes see some kind of vision) of St Michael, St Catherine and St Margaret when she was thirteen. At first, they simply urged her to develop her piety but eventually began to direct her to become involved in the struggle to bring Charles, son of King Charles VI, to the contested French throne.

Obediently, 17-year old Joan traveled to the French court, took on male attire, and persisted in making her way through the layers of bureaucracy by predicting the outcome of certain military operations and then by recognizing the king in his disguise. She convinced him to allow her to command an army, and using a sword that had been buried behind the altar of St Catherine de Fierbois, she led her army to a spectacular victory over the English at Orleans. Charles’ supporters were reinvigorated by the inspiration of this armored Maid of Orleans, and after a string of victories, Charles was crowned at the Cathedral in Rheims with Joan in attendance.

She laid down her arms on the altar of St Denis after being shot through the thigh with a crossbow but went back to the field one more time. At Compegnie, Joan was trapped outside the castle, dragged from her horse, and promptly sold to the English with no intervention by Charles. Held in a secular prison guarded by English soldiers, she continued to wear male clothing for protection. The Inquisition was called in.

After nearly five months of testimony, beginning with charges of witchcraft and ending with a conviction of engaging in cross-dressing, Joan was condemned a heretic at nineteen, and she was burned at the stake in Rouen on May 30, 1431.  A new trial by the Church in 1450 overturned her conviction and declared Joan to be a martyr. She was canonized (declared a saint) in 1920 by Pope Benedict XV, who called her a “most brilliant shining light” of God. Her story has been the subject of hundreds of books, plays, musical compositions, and art.

Prayer for Joan of Arc: In the face of your enemies, in the face of harassment, ridicule, and doubt, you held firm in your faith. Even in your abandonment, alone and without friends, you held firm in your faith. Even as you faced your own mortality, you held firm in your faith. I pray that I may be as bold in my beliefs as you, St. Joan. I ask that you ride along beside me in my own battles. Help me be mindful that what is worthwhile can be won when I persist. Help me hold firm in my faith. Help me believe in my ability to act well and wisely. Amen.

–Penny Nash


Joan of Arc vs. Lancelot Andrewes

  • Joan of Arc (62%, 1,290 Votes)
  • Lancelot Andrewes (39%, 805 Votes)

Total Voters: 2,088

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82 Comments to "Joan of Arc vs. Lancelot Andrewes"

  1. Vicki's Gravatar Vicki
    February 23, 2012 - 8:28 am | Permalink

    George Bernard Shaw (in his preface to Saint Joan – almost longer than the play) said that Joan was really the first Protestant saint, so firmly did she hold to her personal vision against the hierarchy of the Church. Brava Jehanne!

    • Sal's Gravatar Sal
      February 23, 2012 - 12:36 pm | Permalink

      The crown of Martyrdom tough to ignore.

      • Alister's Gravatar Alister
        February 23, 2012 - 5:04 pm | Permalink

        I find good theology tough to ignore 🙂

  2. Linda Jones's Gravatar Linda Jones
    February 23, 2012 - 8:33 am | Permalink

    This site is just way cool! I anticipate learning a lot!! I’ve shared it with my Rector, Lowell Grisham, and he’ll be enlightening our Parish today! BTW, he’d be an awesome star-studded blogger!!!

  3. February 23, 2012 - 8:45 am | Permalink

    What brilliance! I’ve admired Joan of Arc for ages but never knew of Lancelot Andrewes. Hard pressed to choose between them. Hmmm. Words or swords? A strong woman or a prayerful punning man? Tough call!

  4. Meg's Gravatar Meg
    February 23, 2012 - 9:06 am | Permalink

    Wow, this is difficult! I came into this match-up with my money on JoA, but after reading about Andrewes, I’m torn…

  5. February 23, 2012 - 9:43 am | Permalink

    Clearly a win-win for Penny Nash!

  6. February 23, 2012 - 9:49 am | Permalink

    Yes, Meredith, I like my odds today! I’ll be seeing you next week!

  7. Brianne Willard's Gravatar Brianne Willard
    February 23, 2012 - 10:09 am | Permalink

    I’m voting for Jeanne. It’s a tough decision since those Elizabethans are so grand. But I played Jeanne in a French club production of Anouilh’s L’Allouette in 1964 where I fell in love with my husband who played Charles. I had a terrible sprained ankle, but wrapped up tight with boots on, wielded my sword with great courage and love!

  8. February 23, 2012 - 10:10 am | Permalink

    Joan of Arc got a dragon tattoo long before Lisbeth Salander did.

  9. Diane Amison-Loring's Gravatar Diane Amison-Loring
    February 23, 2012 - 10:13 am | Permalink

    Any ideas on how to stuff the ballot box for Lancelot Andrewes? This safety device surely can’t be that secure.

    • Patsy White's Gravatar Patsy White
      February 23, 2012 - 11:53 am | Permalink

      I love Lancelot’s prayers. Joan has gotten so much attention through the ages. I’m voting for my buddy Lance.

  10. Jeanne Smith's Gravatar Jeanne Smith
    February 23, 2012 - 10:40 am | Permalink

    My patron, hands down!

  11. Ann's Gravatar Ann
    February 23, 2012 - 10:46 am | Permalink

    Vote for Joan- Noah’s wife you know!

  12. February 23, 2012 - 10:50 am | Permalink

    As a quirky-preacher-turned-loonie-blogger, I am really torn: prolific writer vs. martyr who heard voices. I have had a weakness for young visionaries since childhood, but also a suspicion of the Catholic pathway to sainthood offered up to women: virgin martyrdom. On the other hand, I have both admiration for what it takes to keep showing up for work and weariness for ordination as the pathway to sainthood for men. I guess Barbara Harris won’t show up in the bracket, as she is still alive… Talk among yourselves. I am still listening before I cast my vote.

    • February 23, 2012 - 11:05 am | Permalink

      Hearing voices trumps anything any day, in my book!

      • Diane Amison-Loring's Gravatar Diane Amison-Loring
        February 23, 2012 - 2:03 pm | Permalink

        To roughly quote GBS, if Joan really had been hearing voices, wouldn’t they have been in English?

    • February 23, 2012 - 7:03 pm | Permalink

      Okay, I knew the smart money was on Joan. But having striven for this sainthood business for over almost six decades, I went for the one who could be a saint all the way to old age. Plus, it’s all about what happens next. And Lance was the clear winner in the “These are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name” department.

  13. Alec's Gravatar Alec
    February 23, 2012 - 11:00 am | Permalink

    Joan memorialized in music by another Frenchman, Arthur Honneger–wonderful work and than a visit to Rouen and the spot where she was executed–than a visit to the cathedral–feel a connection and find her courage and her love of God an inspiration.

    • Greg C.'s Gravatar Greg C.
      February 23, 2012 - 11:49 am | Permalink

      Alec, I too love Honegger’s “Joan of Arc at the Stake” (“Jeanne d’Arc au bûcher”). One quibble: Honegger was Swiss, not French, though he pursued much of his career in Paris. His satirical treatment of Joan’s trial in the oratorio clearly reflects a dim view of the late-medieval church hierarchy.

      • February 23, 2012 - 1:47 pm | Permalink

        A bit of trivia – I listened to part of Joan of Arc at the Stake in the car on my way to Celebrity Blogger Meredith Gould’s wedding!

        • Barbara Baxter's Gravatar Barbara Baxter
          February 24, 2012 - 6:31 am | Permalink

          Thanks be to God I’d already swallowed my coffee before reading your trivia bit, Penny!

  14. February 23, 2012 - 11:02 am | Permalink

    Joan’s life had God stamped all over it! How many of us can say we were raised by peasants and by age 13 had visual imagery which would prompt the priests in our parish to purse us to assist in our upcoming election. Think about it, no really, think about it! What a nova she was. A young women in a man’s world, raised without priviledge and seeking out her convictions all the way to her time in the slammer to being executed. Unbelievable!

  15. February 23, 2012 - 11:11 am | Permalink

    Think of all the plays, books, movies, etc about Joan. And then think about the plays, books, movies, etc about Lance. Hers is a compelling story. (Although Andrewes was a giant figure in his day and in Anglican history. Too bad his sermons didn’t stand the test of time the way the King James Bible did.) This is a great matchup.

  16. February 23, 2012 - 11:24 am | Permalink

    The Bishop sounds nice, but it’s hard going up against a mystic cross-dresser.

  17. fran's Gravatar fran
    February 23, 2012 - 11:26 am | Permalink

    To put in a plug for the lesser known Lancelot Andrewes:

    Lancelot Andrewes wrote this as part of a daily prayer:

    Remember what my substance is,
    dust and ashes,
    grass and a flower,
    flesh and a wind that passeth away,
    corruption and the worm.
    As a stranger and a sojourner upon earth,
    inhabiting a house of clay,
    whose days are few and evil,
    today and not tomorrow,
    at morning and not till evening,
    now and not by and by,
    in a body of death,
    in a world of corruption,
    that lieth in wickedness.
    Remember this, O Lord.
    (Private Devotions;

    What moves me here is the idea that I am grass AND a flower–humble and dull and fragile and showy. I am also moved by the line “As a stranger and a sojourner upon earth”–to work all my days to strive against the sin in my nature, from the venial to the great. And in saying this, I imagine him remembering the frailty and necessity of working to do God’s will when our bodies and our world wants to lead us astray; the last line reminds him that for all his remembering to renounce his pride, he depends on the mercy of the Lord. God’s present grace is what we come to at the end of the prayer.

  18. Beth Royalty's Gravatar Beth Royalty
    February 23, 2012 - 11:30 am | Permalink

    Love it that Penny wins today no matter what. Lancelot sounds smart, erudite, compelling. However, I think Joan had a miserable young life and being burned at the stake deserves a vote.

  19. Bill Dilworth's Gravatar Bill Dilworth
    February 23, 2012 - 12:04 pm | Permalink

    If Joan of Arc beats Lancelot Andrewes, I’ll – why, I’ll — okay, I don’t know what I’ll do, but it won’t be pretty.

    • February 23, 2012 - 11:05 pm | Permalink

      It does not look good for your cause, but things could change overnight.

      We at Lent Madness HQ do not advocate for particular saints. However, I do wish to point out that Lent Madness partakers are free to engage in many techniques to push the cause of their favored ones. Last year, we saw blogging, social media campaigns, and perhaps a prime time televsion ad (or maybe I just dreamed that).

      All’s fair in love, war, and Lent Madness.

  20. Laura's Gravatar Laura
    February 23, 2012 - 12:36 pm | Permalink

    My vote is for Joan because she bucked the male establishment by proving not only to be a visionary and missionary of God, but also an amazing military tactician at the age of 17. To trust in your faith and your inituition the way that she did at 17 is astounding.

    • Amy's Gravatar Amy
      February 24, 2012 - 2:32 pm | Permalink

      Joan witnessed to the direct experience of the divine with no mediation of church, priest, or document. Lancelot loosened the grip of the papal hierarchy by offering the Word in the vernacular, but the idolization of the Bible has in itself become a distraction from the personal experience–and I might add it reified male authority, which Joan, too, battled. Interestingly, she is paired with a man named Lancelot when it is Joan who is the figure of Arthurian legends, pulling the sword from the stone, liberating France…Jeanne of the Arc, of the covenant, of the grail. She gets my vote every time.

  21. dr.primrose's Gravatar dr.primrose
    February 23, 2012 - 12:53 pm | Permalink

    Vote for Lancelot Andrews!

    His work is foundational to modern Anglicanism — we are not a purely Reformed/Puritan church or a Roman church but a church that combines the best of pre-Reformation catholicism and the best of the Reformers. He was a strong supporter of the Real Presence in the Eucharist while understanding that Christians could validly have different opinions on what that meant. He was also one of the scholars who helped translate the Authorized/King James version of the Bible.

    There’s no choice between an Roman Catholic French peasant and one of the great Anglican scholars who significantly formed who all of us are as Episcopalians!!

    • February 23, 2012 - 2:56 pm | Permalink

      It was closer for me. I really admire Joan of Arc. She spoke with a conviction and clarity at her trial far beyond her years and learning that could only have come from the Holy Spirit. But in the end, I agreed that Andrewes was too important to our church to not vote for him.

  22. February 23, 2012 - 12:57 pm | Permalink

    We read this aloud this morning and Joan won hands down in my family; my 10 year old is rooting for her to go ALL THE WAY.

    • February 23, 2012 - 1:45 pm | Permalink

      Yay! SO glad to hear your family is doing this together! (I’m rooting for Joan all the way, too!)

  23. Peggy Thompson's Gravatar Peggy Thompson
    February 23, 2012 - 1:03 pm | Permalink

    Somehow I just can not see God telling people to go and kill others. Yes, I know the Old Testament is full of it, but I think that is in the minds of men, not God, at least as I understand the Gospel. So for me it is a no for Joan.

    • Amy's Gravatar Amy
      February 24, 2012 - 2:35 pm | Permalink

      Joan is said to never have killed. She merely led the troops into battle. In fact she did not eat flesh, only bread and a little wine. But her real work was not on the battlefield but in the court. There a 17-year old girl stood down the Catholic church. Read her testimony, it’s available, and prepare to be moved and startled by her wit, her power, and her faith. If Christ has a counterpart, it may be Joan. What other saint was killed by the Church itself?

  24. Fr. Bill Loring's Gravatar Fr. Bill Loring
    February 23, 2012 - 1:29 pm | Permalink

    Seeding seems to be common in the first round brackets; but we start with two who might have been strong contenders for the Golden Halo and one will soon be out of the running. That said, my vote is for Lance who was central to the formation of so much Anglican Spirituality.
    Go Lancelot!

  25. Diane Amison-Loring's Gravatar Diane Amison-Loring
    February 23, 2012 - 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Come on folks, where is your loyalty to the man who helped give us the King James Bible? I think there should be some credit given to a saintly scholar who didn’t have the opportunity to die the way his competition did. It was harder, I think, to live out the many years Lancelot did as a faithful bishop and a man of prayer. His competition went out in a blaze of glory. Think of glowing embers when you think of Lancelot Andrewes. He gives off a steady warmth to the ages who have followed him.

    • Kenna Therrien's Gravatar Kenna Therrien
      February 23, 2012 - 3:03 pm | Permalink

      Yes to this. My vote went to St. Lancelot Andrewes for this reason.

      Can you imagine a life of worship without the King James Bible?

  26. George Werner's Gravatar George Werner
    February 23, 2012 - 2:14 pm | Permalink

    When you have seen the ugliest Church in history destroying the center of Rouen and it’s named for a certain Saint, I couldn’t bear to think of the LM crown being sent there for a year.

  27. Jane's Gravatar Jane
    February 23, 2012 - 2:18 pm | Permalink

    Ooh, this was a tough choice… I admire Jeanne’s courage and faith, but in the end I have to think that the KJV trumps a French military victory. Bp Andrewes it is!

  28. Fr. Bill Loring's Gravatar Fr. Bill Loring
    February 23, 2012 - 2:35 pm | Permalink

    I haven’t seen the Cburch in question but judging from pictures online its saving grace is the reuse of the glass salvaged from the bombing of St. Vincent’s.

    Go Lancelot!

  29. February 23, 2012 - 2:54 pm | Permalink

    Lancelot and words over Joan and swords.

    • Amy's Gravatar Amy
      February 24, 2012 - 2:36 pm | Permalink

      Check out Joan’s words and you may change your mind. An unschooled peasant girl spoke with a force and beauty and faith that has inspired hundreds of artists and writers with her eloquence.

  30. Christopher Nimmo's Gravatar Christopher Nimmo
    February 23, 2012 - 2:54 pm | Permalink

    I’d love to vote for Joan on the basis of that collect, but I don’t think I can support a soldier, glass barrier breaking or not!

    • Christopher Nimmo's Gravatar Christopher Nimmo
      February 23, 2012 - 2:55 pm | Permalink

      *glass ceiling

  31. Gretchen R. Chateau's Gravatar Gretchen R. Chateau
    February 23, 2012 - 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Mais…sans doute! Avec mon nom, je dois voter pour Jeanne! Besides, I’ve always admired what she said, “Courage does not consist in not being afraid, but in being afraid and doing it anyway.” Allez-y, Jeanne!

  32. vincent ira ciaramitaro's Gravatar vincent ira ciaramitaro
    February 23, 2012 - 4:00 pm | Permalink

    A year ago JoA would have been an easy vote but having attended several workshops/events marking the 400th anniversary of KJV my vote has got to go to LA. Never been a fan of KJV but the cultural iconic roll over last 400 years is amazing and truthfully there will probably never be anything like that again. What other piece of literature/art had or will have such a pivotal referral point as KJV and has been a starting point for dialogue amongst diverse folks over such a long period of time.

  33. Gary Goldacker's Gravatar Gary Goldacker
    February 23, 2012 - 4:23 pm | Permalink

    Leads French in defeat of the English???? No questions, go Lance!

  34. Deborah Broome's Gravatar Deborah Broome
    February 23, 2012 - 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Lancelot Andrewes was a scholar, a preacher, a person of prayer – and with a sense of humour and love of word-play thrown in. Of these two, he’s the one I most aspire to be like. Andrewes gets my vote.

  35. AmyR's Gravatar AmyR
    February 23, 2012 - 5:26 pm | Permalink

    The pen is mightier than the sword. Lancelot gets my vote.

  36. Mollie Douglas Turner+'s Gravatar Mollie Douglas Turner+
    February 23, 2012 - 5:31 pm | Permalink

    This was tough! My husband and I disagreed, but with only one computer in the house, only one vote would register–and Joan got the first shot. Sorry, Lance; you really had us going, and as my husband says, you probably would have made a better blogger than blessed Jeanne.

    • Christopher Nimmo's Gravatar Christopher Nimmo
      February 23, 2012 - 7:37 pm | Permalink

      Does either of you own a smartphone?

    • Fr Bill Loring's Gravatar Fr Bill Loring
      February 24, 2012 - 12:40 am | Permalink

      Oh come now, We’re Republicans (and not from Chicago) but my wife and I figured out how to vote at least 5 times in each precinct (not that it did Lance much good)!

  37. Kate Cabot's Gravatar Kate Cabot
    February 23, 2012 - 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Go, Saint Joan! You’re my girl!

    • February 26, 2012 - 11:10 am | Permalink

      Joan is my girl too. I read earlier where someone wrote that she stood up to the Catholic Church. That’s not exactly correct. She stood up to the Catholic Church in so much as it was the English Catholics who held the trial. Charles threw her under the bus. Yet – as it was a church court that convicted her, it could only be a church court that could clear her name. Her “rehabilitation trial” took place within 25 years of her death. That is remarkable, as the people who knew hear and clergy from her first trial were still alive to testify in her defense. An unprecidented event indeed, since it took the Church 500 years to clear Gallileo of excommunication for saying the earth was round. 🙂 Joan is true role model for faith, humility, conviction. Yes, she’s my homegirl. No doubt about it.

  38. Ginny Rodriguez's Gravatar Ginny Rodriguez
    February 23, 2012 - 6:07 pm | Permalink

    Each saint, in his or her time, lived life for God. Both contributed the the propagation of the faith. The drama of the Maid of Orleans is so compelling including the later and heartbreaking announcement by the English, “Truly, we have burnt a saint.”
    Lancelot Andrewes’ long life allowed for his impressive, even massive, scholarship and for his delightful puns. Lancelot Andrewes has my vote. (This is going to be a very difficult Lent; making choices between Good and Good; apricots and persimmons; apples and blueberries…)

  39. Paul Rosbolt's Gravatar Paul Rosbolt
    February 23, 2012 - 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Interesting choice….dictated by circumstances. Don’t know how Lancelot would have reacted under the same dire circumstances, but Joan did good when faced with a crisis.

  40. Barbara A. Cadwell's Gravatar Barbara A. Cadwell
    February 23, 2012 - 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Well, the voting seems to be overwhelmingly for St. Joan. Tomorrow, one of the great early fathers of the church, St. Jerome, against a guy who took a second rate degree at Oxbridge, was ordained and went on missionary work to New Zealand where he was appartently martyred by mistake. This is not to denigrate the sincerity of his faith or the depth of his sacrifice, but Lent Madness indeed! I believe that Jerome will roll right over him. Although I am not saying where my vote will go, I am notoriously soft for the underdog, hence my legal representation of the poor, disenfranchised, old and crazy.

    • Christopher Nimmo's Gravatar Christopher Nimmo
      February 23, 2012 - 7:41 pm | Permalink

      Not just any mistaken martyrdom – but a terribly ironic one, in that Patteson was fighting the blackbirders he was mistaken for. Patteson is surely amongst the most important Anglican missionaries.

  41. marguerite's Gravatar marguerite
    February 23, 2012 - 6:57 pm | Permalink

    Love all these comments. My sister’s name is Joan, born in 1930, named for the Maid, so….obvioslsy….. Still, glad that Lancelot is getting so much love and glad to see we’re all fighting over this.

  42. Sister Mary Winifred's Gravatar Sister Mary Winifred
    February 23, 2012 - 7:39 pm | Permalink

    . . . that prayer should say TO Joan of Arc not FOR — I’m not buying it!

  43. Leigh Hollis-Caruso's Gravatar Leigh Hollis-Caruso
    February 23, 2012 - 8:39 pm | Permalink

    Oh ladies and gents…I am one of the laity and somewhat versed in liturgy so I do understand the want to vote for Andrewes. I love the BCP and the three legged stool. But as a woman I have to say that my money is on Joan. There are so many white, male saints in our history, I felt I had to even the odds just a bit.

    • Sarah Pope's Gravatar Sarah Pope
      February 24, 2012 - 8:24 am | Permalink

      I’m with Leigh on this one. Although the puns almost got me, teen courage won me.

  44. Brian S's Gravatar Brian S
    February 23, 2012 - 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Jesus said that his kingdom was not of this world and further set the example to not live by the sword. I question both Joan Arc’s inspiration and that of Constatine. This is due to the fact that they fought for advancements of earthly kindgoms and not the kingdom of heaven.

  45. Mary-Elise Haug's Gravatar Mary-Elise Haug
    February 23, 2012 - 9:04 pm | Permalink

    I started out convinced Joan was the sure choice. And if I was betting on this I would still vote for her. I found the argument for Andrewes. As there are those that believe KJV is the inerrant word of God, I think it would be great if Andrewes was more of a household name.

  46. Margaret Smist's Gravatar Margaret Smist
    February 23, 2012 - 10:19 pm | Permalink

    I am starting to realize that this Lent Madness is ‘serious business’. My vote for Joan based on the fact that I saw a move that really stuck with me as a kid just isn’t good enough. Touche’!

    • Diane Amison-Loring's Gravatar Diane Amison-Loring
      February 23, 2012 - 10:54 pm | Permalink

      Back in the early 1960’s, I saw Ellen Geer portray St. Joan in the GBS play at the Tyrone Guthrie Theater’s inaugural season in Mpls, MN. I will never forget the power of the play.
      I, too, wish, that Lancelot Andrewes was more of a household name. Maybe after this, he will be.

  47. Mary-Elise's Gravatar Mary-Elise
    February 23, 2012 - 11:46 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps someone will figure out how to stuff the ballot box for Andrewes overnight (eastern time anyway).
    This has been very enlightening.

  48. Kyle's Gravatar Kyle
    February 23, 2012 - 11:54 pm | Permalink

    As I am presently reading the most boring book on an obscure topic in patristics that has ever been written (and I can’t just skim it, because it’s very important for my project), I have more sympathy at the moment for those saints of our Lord who proved their faith through the endurance of long tedium than those who led armies to victory and were rewarded with the crown of swift martyrdom. Andrewes all the way! (And blessed Lancelot, I’m not really Anglo-Catholic so I don’t normally do this, but intercede for me. I figure you understand what I’m going through.)

    • February 24, 2012 - 12:55 am | Permalink

      What’s your project, and what are you reading?

      I’m often comforted by “the company of saints” — I mean, that’s a term often used to mean “all the saints” but I interpret it with our colloquial meaning of company. That’s a nice point about Lancelot understanding the trials of scholarship — definitely someone to reflect on and chat with in those moments!

  49. Fr Bill Loring's Gravatar Fr Bill Loring
    February 24, 2012 - 12:15 am | Permalink

    There is a way, but if I post it then the Joanites would probably use it against us. 🙂

  50. swall's Gravatar swall
    February 24, 2012 - 12:19 am | Permalink

    all the comments about hoping that this will make LA a household word in spite of their vote for JoA – duh – make him a household word by voting FOR him and getting the word out about him

  51. Katherine Doar's Gravatar Katherine Doar
    February 24, 2012 - 2:37 am | Permalink

    Great match up

  52. Deborah Broome's Gravatar Deborah Broome
    February 24, 2012 - 4:18 am | Permalink

    Today is a choice between ‘a cold coming we had of it …’ and being burnt at the stake.
    Seriously now – vote Andrewes!

  53. Tom Cox's Gravatar Tom Cox
    February 24, 2012 - 7:04 am | Permalink

    On a neutral court, I would expect an easy win for Joan. But up against a Brit (particularly a Lancelot) on an Anglican website, the home court advantage could make this a close battle. I just think that Joan’s supporters will be more fired up for this one.

  54. February 24, 2012 - 7:38 am | Permalink

    I voted for Lancelot, but thinking about Joan called to mind Leonard Cohen’s haunting song about the fire’s courtship with the maiden. If you don’t know Cohen’s “Joan of Arc,” do listen to it.

  55. Jean Cavada's Gravatar Jean Cavada
    February 24, 2012 - 11:01 am | Permalink

    After reading all these comments, sorta wish I’d voted for Lancelot. Love
    the thundering King James Version!

  56. Autumn Alexander Skeen's Gravatar Autumn Alexander Skeen
    February 24, 2012 - 2:20 pm | Permalink

    I’m a Joan girl all the way, but a patron saint of scholarship has my blood, sweat, miserable tears, and thanks. Thank you for letting me know about him in my time of need.
    Where are the puns? My husband might even go to church with me if I can entice him with puns.

  57. Dennis Johnson's Gravatar Dennis Johnson
    February 25, 2012 - 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Thought this was going to be easy, bot not. Joan was certainly heroic and broke the mold for women of here time; she also was treated badly by the male authority figures of her time, all of which recommends her.
    Lancelot, on the other hand, was also a warrior. Any churchman who lived during both the reigns of Elizabeth and James had to tread an uneasy path. That Lancelot did it with some humor and grace says a great deal for the man.
    People always admire warriors, whether on the field of battle or the gridiron. They get recognition and rewards. But I think I’ll go with the scholar, one who helps us interpret God’s word and message. The Great Struggle in our time, will not take place on the battlefield, but in our hearts and minds.

  58. Brigid Courtney's Gravatar Brigid Courtney
    February 26, 2012 - 5:54 pm | Permalink

    I vote for Joan, in memory of our Sister Joan, a great worker in our Haitian mission.

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