Margaret of Scotland vs. Richard Hooker

The Saintly Sixteen continues today as Margaret of Scotland faces Richard Hooker. Scottish Queen vs. Anglican theologian. To get to the Saintly Sixteen Margaret trounced Charles I while Richard easily made it past Mary of Egypt.
Yesterday, Peter soundly defeated John the Evangelist 56% to 44%, to become the first saint to advance to the Elate Eight. He’ll face the winner of Esther vs. Michael the Archangel.
This being Friday, we’ll take a break over the weekend to recharge our respective Lenten batteries. Rest up and come back ready for a full-throttle week of Saintly Sixteen matchups starting Monday morning as Maria Skobtsova takes on Quiteria. Now go read and vote!

Margaret of Scotland

MargaretSaint Margaret of Scotland was a noblewoman who contributed lasting gifts to Christians. She was known by various names; she was the mother of a far-reaching family; and she was the subject of biographies, scholarly books, and historical fiction.

She is Scotland’s only royal saint. Among her monikers are Queen Margaret of Scotland, aka Margaret of Wessex, aka “The Pearl of Scotland” aka Saint Margaret.

She boasted quite a pedigree. Saint Margaret of Scotland was the daughter of King Edward the Exile. She was married to King Malcom III of Scotland, and was the mother of what today might be considered an overachieving family – three kings, one queen, a countess, a duke, and a major landowner: King Edgar of Scotland; King Alexander of Scotland; King David I of Scotland; Queen Matilda of England; Edmund, Bishop of Dunkeld in Scotland; Mary, Countess of Boulogne in France; and Etherlred, who owned extensive lands on both sides of the Firth of Forth. Also, let’s not forget her oldest son Edward who died in battle with her husband, King Malcom, immortalized in Shakespeare’s celebrated play, Macbeth, aka the Scottish Play.

A miracle attributed to her stems from her Gospel Book that was decorated with many jewels. According to legend, the jeweled book was dropped in a river, and, as the legend goes, the book was miraculously recovered. That same Gospel Book is currently located in the Bodleian Library at the University of Oxford, one of the oldest libraries in Europe.

Saint Margaret is the subject of numerous historical novels, biographies and books, starting with the Life of St. Margaret, written by her confessor, Turgot, not long after her death in 1093, up to 2010’s Queen Hereafter: A Novel of Margaret of Scotland by Susan Fraser King. There are also a series of books about her and her husband.

The legacy of Saint Margaret continued after her death when, in 1560, Mary Queen of Scots had custody of Margaret’s head. Mary believed that Margaret’s head, considered a relic, would assist in childbirth. Later, Margaret’s head landed with the Jesuits at the Scots’ College, Douai, France, but evidently was misplaced or mislaid during the French Revolution.  Therefore, like many others, Margaret’s head was lost in the French Revolution.

Among the many churches worldwide named in her honor is St. Margaret’s Chapel in Edinburgh Castle in Edinburgh, Scotland, established by her son King David I.

However, when it comes to Lent, Saint Margaret of Scotland remains the true Patron Saint of Lent Madness, since she insisted that clergy begin Lent on Ash Wednesday (not unlike our Saintly Smackdown).

-Neva Rae Fox

Richard Hooker

Richard Hooker was born during the reign of Mary I, Queen of England after the death of her half-brother Edward VI, and died four years prior to the Hampton Court Conference. As such, he came of age in and became a leader of the Church of England during a time of incredible transformation. Protestants and Roman Catholics were fighting one another, and the soul of the Church was in danger of being torn asunder by the conflict. He is a saint worthy of remembrance particularly in a time of fierce division.

Richard Hooker stepped into the melee between Protestants and Roman Catholics and appealed to reason and tolerance, suggesting that Christians in conflict should consider more of what we have in common over that which separates us. To quote him, “God is no captious sophister, eager to trip us up whenever we say amiss, but a courteous tutor, ready to amend what, in our weakness or our ignorance, we say ill, and to make the most of what we say aright.”

After his royal appointment as Master of the Temple Church in 1585, Hooker came into conflict with Walter Travers, a Puritan who was angry because, among other things, a previous sermon by Hooker argued that salvation wasn’t dependent on our grasp of God’s grace. This argument suggests that, at least in theory, salvation is open to all, including (cue the dramatic music) Roman Catholics. In the midst of this dispute, Hooker began writing Of the Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity, a defense of the Book of Common Prayer and critique of Puritanism. It is in Laws that Richard Hooker argues a theology of the Eucharist that goes beyond Christ’s presence in the bread and wine and argues Christ’s presence in the ones receiving the Sacrament. For Hooker, an argument about the presence of Christ in the elements of the Eucharist is pointless if one does not also consider the presence of Christ in the recipient because, by participating in the Eucharist, we participate in the Incarnation. One surprising advocate of Laws was Pope Clement VIII, who described it as possessing “seeds of eternity.”

When confronted with the “Vestiarian Controversy” which questioned the merits of clergy wearing the clerical cap and surplice, Hooker, clearly weary of the verbosity and lack of Christian charity with which Christians engaged with one another, wrote that “There will come a time when three words uttered with charity and meekness shall receive a far more blessed reward than three thousand volumes written with disdainful sharpness of wit.” To be honest, though written 450 years ago, those are words still bear relevance for our current context.

-Marcus Halley

Margaret of Scotland vs. Richard Hooker

  • Richard Hooker (64%, 4,710 Votes)
  • Margaret of Scotland (36%, 2,634 Votes)

Total Voters: 7,344

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Saint Margaret of Scotland: [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons
Richard Hooker: [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons

184 Comments to "Margaret of Scotland vs. Richard Hooker"

  1. Catherine W Huber's Gravatar Catherine W Huber
    March 9, 2018 - 8:09 am | Permalink

    Richard: had me at Captious Sophister.

    • Jenifer's Gravatar Jenifer
      March 9, 2018 - 5:05 pm | Permalink

      I had to write down Captious Sophister. I also agree that Christ lives in us.

  2. Dianne's Gravatar Dianne
    March 9, 2018 - 8:13 am | Permalink

    Richard Hooker is an example for our time with his idea that ChristiNs in conflict should consider more of what we have in common over that which separates us. He has my vote!

  3. Michelle's Gravatar Michelle
    March 9, 2018 - 8:17 am | Permalink

    I voted for both of these saints in the first round and I came into this round thinking I’d vote for Margaret. However, Hooker’s argument “about the presence of Christ in the elements of the Eucharist is pointless if one does not also consider the presence of Christ in the recipient because, by participating in the Eucharist, we participate in the Incarnation” swayed my vote. Also his belief that salvation wasn’t dependent on our grasp of God’s grace is very appealing.

    • Heather Coleman's Gravatar Heather Coleman
      March 9, 2018 - 10:19 am | Permalink

      Same here!

    • Margaret Forsythe's Gravatar Margaret Forsythe
      March 9, 2018 - 11:00 am | Permalink

      Named Margaret. Visited St. Margaret’s Chapel in Edinburgh and was impressed. I had also planned on voting for Margaret, and as you found, was hooked on the same meaning of the Eucharist. Every Sunday at the end of the Eucharist prayer we say: Priest – “Behold what you are.” Response – “May we become what we receive.”
      It gets me every time.

      • Lucretia's Gravatar Lucretia
        March 9, 2018 - 12:00 pm | Permalink

        Is that instead of the invitation or right after the amen?

        • Margaret Forsythe's Gravatar Margaret Forsythe
          March 9, 2018 - 12:11 pm | Permalink

          After the Agnus Dei

          • Nancy Larkin's Gravatar Nancy Larkin
            March 9, 2018 - 12:21 pm | Permalink

            How utterly wonderful!! I will suggest it to the Rector.

          • Jack Zamboni's Gravatar Jack Zamboni
            March 9, 2018 - 4:54 pm | Permalink

            I’m the priest Deacon Margaret Forsythe works with. The origin of that invitation is St. Augustine, in this form in the BCP of the Anglican Church of Canada.

      • Tessa's Gravatar Tessa
        March 9, 2018 - 12:55 pm | Permalink

        I like that!

      • Claire Field's Gravatar Claire Field
        March 9, 2018 - 3:46 pm | Permalink


      • Joyce's Gravatar Joyce
        March 9, 2018 - 6:05 pm | Permalink

        This is so very moving. Beautiful. Thanks for sharing this.

    • Jacque Fertick's Gravatar Jacque Fertick
      March 9, 2018 - 1:13 pm | Permalink

      DITTO, Michelle

  4. Shan's Gravatar Shan
    March 9, 2018 - 8:19 am | Permalink

    Margaret-Patron Saint of Lent Madness!!! She deserves the Golden Halo!

    • March 9, 2018 - 8:59 am | Permalink

      Nothing against Blessed Richard Hooker and his keen intellect, but Margaret was a Lent devotee who used her not inconsiderable privilege in the service of others. My choice too.

    • BB's Gravatar BB
      March 9, 2018 - 9:20 am | Permalink

      But where will she wear the crown?

      • Peg S.'s Gravatar Peg S.
        March 9, 2018 - 9:23 am | Permalink

        No worries– with enough votes she’ll get ahead.

        • Susan Lee Hauser's Gravatar Susan Lee Hauser
          March 9, 2018 - 9:48 am | Permalink

          Ooh, that was smooth, Peg, very smooth!

        • St. Celia's Gravatar St. Celia
          March 9, 2018 - 12:48 pm | Permalink

          ah ha ha

        • Myrrh's Gravatar Myrrh
          March 10, 2018 - 5:23 am | Permalink


      • Alan Christensen's Gravatar Alan Christensen
        March 9, 2018 - 9:48 am | Permalink

        In heaven, obviously.

      • Elaine's Gravatar Elaine
        March 9, 2018 - 5:15 pm | Permalink

        Since she now has a Glorified Body, I’m sure it’s no problem!

  5. Michael Cartwright's Gravatar Michael Cartwright
    March 9, 2018 - 8:20 am | Permalink

    Richard’s attempts at reconciliation make him my choice today.

  6. Faith Perrizo's Gravatar Faith Perrizo
    March 9, 2018 - 8:24 am | Permalink

    I am dismayed that Margaret’s Ministry to and among the poor was left out of this second writing about her, while Richard Hooker’s accomplishments were given great length. It makes her look like straw and her’s was an earthy and weighty ministry tempered by devotion and prayer.

    • Mary Evelyn's Gravatar Mary Evelyn
      March 9, 2018 - 8:44 am | Permalink

      I completely agree! I’m feeling a little manipulated, this round.

      • Dena Morris's Gravatar Dena Morris
        March 9, 2018 - 9:09 am | Permalink

        I agree & WILL “look back” in future rounds. I’d intended to vote for Margaret, but wondered why after reading this “new” information. Richard Hooker is probably a saint for our church (& I was really impressed with his views concerning “Christians in conflict” & his “theology of the Eucharist,” but wish I’d remembered Margaret’s work with orphans, etc. She seems to be more a saint for the world.

        • Katherine Grimes's Gravatar Katherine Grimes
          March 9, 2018 - 10:24 am | Permalink

          I agree. I did some research on Margaret: she helped civilize her husband, King Malcolm; fostered education in Scotland; fed orphans; fed the poor; and washed the feet of others in imitation of Jesus. Richard Hooker is admirable, but I’m for Margaret again.

          • K.Owen's Gravatar K.Owen
            March 9, 2018 - 11:25 am | Permalink

            I agree as well….too much bias in that presentation

    • Megan O Jones's Gravatar Megan O Jones
      March 9, 2018 - 12:11 pm | Permalink

      Remember that each round has its own theme and the descriptions follow that theme. Some choose to vote on the whole picture and others on how the saints hold up in each round.

      Neither approach ever makes the choice easy for me. I tend to sway back and forth between them.

  7. Mary-Theresa Anderson's Gravatar Mary-Theresa Anderson
    March 9, 2018 - 8:24 am | Permalink

    Margaret gets my vote.

    • Denise Evans's Gravatar Denise Evans
      March 9, 2018 - 3:11 pm | Permalink

      Me too.

  8. Karen Sculley's Gravatar Karen Sculley
    March 9, 2018 - 8:27 am | Permalink

    Richard’s passion for bringing unity to the body of Christ won me over, although I am also thankful for Margaret’s prolific family and influence that reaches across generations. My three words today uttered with charity and hopefully meekness are: Orthodox+Catholic+Protestant – how beautiful is the body of Christ!

    • Verdery D. Kassebaum's Gravatar Verdery D. Kassebaum
      March 9, 2018 - 11:47 am | Permalink

      Amen, Karen! Particularly the “Orthodox+Catholic+Protestant…” We are all sisters and brothers. (Even if there is the occasional family squabble.)

  9. Sarah's Gravatar Sarah
    March 9, 2018 - 8:28 am | Permalink

    Based only on the writings today, I would have voted for Hooker. However, knowing about Margaret, the nurturer in me still favors Margaret. We’ll see who my sister supports—we tend to nullikfy each other’s votes without even trying…

    • March 9, 2018 - 8:48 am | Permalink

      Well, at least nullikfidery is not as bad as captious sophistry.

  10. March 9, 2018 - 8:31 am | Permalink

    Scots wha hae!

    Vote fir Maggie the noo!

  11. Lou Ritter's Gravatar Lou Ritter
    March 9, 2018 - 8:32 am | Permalink

    I have Scottish ancestry, love the name Margaret, and have visited the St. Margaret’s Chapel so I’m voting for Margaret. But in the long run, Hooker may have done more for the faith of the church.

  12. Rebecca Christian's Gravatar Rebecca Christian
    March 9, 2018 - 8:35 am | Permalink

    “She was a reformer beyond the church as well, establishing schools, orphanages, and hospitals throughout Scotland. Margaret and Malcolm were tireless in their efforts to improve the living conditions of the Scottish clans. ” (From Mary vs. Charles) Margaret not only did many things to advance the church in Scotland, she and her husband reached out and were the hands of Christ to help the people of Scotland. My vote is for Margaret. However, many thanks to Richard for all of his excellent work, as well! 🙂

  13. Joanne B. Parrott's Gravatar Joanne B. Parrott
    March 9, 2018 - 8:36 am | Permalink

    Verbosity vs. Action. Richard seems might full of himself while Margaret leaves a
    family legacy. so its Margaret, Queen for today indeed.
    Non-Sequitur: Go TarHeels!

    • Elaine's Gravatar Elaine
      March 9, 2018 - 9:53 am | Permalink

      I have no qualms with your vote, but Hooker wasn’t full of himself at all! Just because someone writes scholarly works doesn’t make them full of themselves. He felt compelled to write, because of the divisiveness around him. He would have preferred to live a quiet life as a priest in a small country church.

  14. Wayne's Gravatar Wayne
    March 9, 2018 - 8:37 am | Permalink

    I have to vote for Hooker. Michelle, in her comments, has me concurring and sealed this vote for me. I am thankful for this Lent Madness practice in making me more aware of so many individuals God has used as His instruments of love to the world. I am blessed!

  15. Martha Richards's Gravatar Martha Richards
    March 9, 2018 - 8:38 am | Permalink

    As President of the St. Margaret of Scotland Chapter of the Daughters of the King at Church of the Epiphany, I have to vote for Margaret. She is our inspiration.

  16. TJ's Gravatar TJ
    March 9, 2018 - 8:44 am | Permalink

    Richard and his pragmatic, down to earth take on theology.

  17. John the other Verger's Gravatar John the other Verger
    March 9, 2018 - 8:45 am | Permalink

    Richard Hooker! All the way, to the golden halo
    woo hoo!

    • Patricia's Gravatar Patricia
      March 9, 2018 - 9:12 am | Permalink

      I agree, John – Richard Hooker for the Golden Halo for many reasons but especially for his thoughts on the presence of Christ in the Eucharist and in us. Not to mention salvation for all!

    • Nancy Larkin's Gravatar Nancy Larkin
      March 9, 2018 - 12:37 pm | Permalink

      That wouldn’t be a bad result at all!

  18. Anthony Lee's Gravatar Anthony Lee
    March 9, 2018 - 8:45 am | Permalink

    As I said in the first round, I’m not usually fond of theologians, but I make an exception for Hooker. And I seem to be in the majority, for once.

  19. Joscelin Steiner's Gravatar Joscelin Steiner
    March 9, 2018 - 8:54 am | Permalink

    Request for the SEC – can the Saintly 16 and further rounds include a link back to the original write-up for each saint for those of us who want to refresh our memory? (Yes, I know you can get there on the bracket tab but Amazon has conditioned me for one click easy ordering!)

    • Davis Dassori's Gravatar Davis Dassori
      March 10, 2018 - 12:16 am | Permalink

      If you scroll to the top of any day’s discussion, back to the bios, and look to the right, you’ll see a button marked lRECENT POSTS” and another marked “ARCHIVES” with a drop-down menu of months going all the way back to the Madness Incunabula of January 2012. By using those you can easily find the bios and comments for every previous discussion.

  20. Jennifer Seaver's Gravatar Jennifer Seaver
    March 9, 2018 - 8:55 am | Permalink


  21. Dan Armstrong's Gravatar Dan Armstrong
    March 9, 2018 - 8:57 am | Permalink

    I had 13 out of 16 in the first round but lost yesterday! Margaret has to win today….. SCOTLAND FOREVER! If you vote for Margaret you will get a set of Ginsu Steak Knives. 🙂 (Disclaimer- we are officially out of Steak Knives)

    • Elaine Chilcote's Gravatar Elaine Chilcote
      March 9, 2018 - 11:34 am | Permalink

      I had only 6 out of 16 in the first round, and two of those were Margaret and Richard Hooker. This is a hard choice for me, made no easier by the fact that you are out of Steak Knives.

  22. Diane Roehl's Gravatar Diane Roehl
    March 9, 2018 - 8:58 am | Permalink

    St. Margaret is the one for me! St. Margaret’s Church in Palm Desert, CA was my first Episcopal home, have many saintly Margaret’s in my life and have seen the book in the Bodleian Library. Now, I have to go Google “Firth of Forth!”

  23. Karen Mallon Sharp's Gravatar Karen Mallon Sharp
    March 9, 2018 - 8:58 am | Permalink

    I went to the Catholic Online website to read more about Margaret. Even before that, Neva Rae Fox’ tongue-in-cheek comment “Therefore, like many others, Margaret’s head was lost in the French Revolution,” some 700 years after Margaret’s death, inclined me to vote for her. Nowhere did I read that Msrgaret was actually beheaded. Since Mary Queen of Scots ended up with her head, I assume that happened when Margaret’s remains and (those of her husband Malcolm’s) were moved from the high altar to the apse at Dunfermline Abbey.

  24. June's Gravatar June
    March 9, 2018 - 9:00 am | Permalink

    Slainte for Margaret!

  25. Sally in Dallas's Gravatar Sally in Dallas
    March 9, 2018 - 9:01 am | Permalink

    Richard Hooker’s presence in Lent Madness is very timely this year. I’ve been intrigued for years by his theology of scripture, tradition and reason, as I think many Episcopalians today were drawn to our faith denomination by this “three legged stool”. But in this year of political turmoil Richard’s appeal for tolerance and understanding among Christians, seeking a common ground rather than separation won my heart this morning. His prayer…”Grant that we may maintain that middle way, not as a compromise for the sake of peace, but as a comprehension for the sake of truth”…stirred me greatly today.

    • Patricia's Gravatar Patricia
      March 9, 2018 - 9:14 am | Permalink

      I agree, John – Richard Hooker for the Golden Halo for many reasons but especially for his thoughts on the presence of Christ in the Eucharist and in us. Not to mention salvation for all!

    • Patricia's Gravatar Patricia
      March 9, 2018 - 9:15 am | Permalink

      Beautifully said, Sally. Thank you.

    • Lisa Keppeler's Gravatar Lisa Keppeler
      March 9, 2018 - 7:25 pm | Permalink

      Amen, Sally.

  26. Betsy in Reston VA's Gravatar Betsy in Reston VA
    March 9, 2018 - 9:04 am | Permalink

    “There will come a time when three words uttered with charity and meekness shall receive a far more blessed reward than three thousand volumes written with disdainful sharpness of wit.” That nailed it for Richard, although couldn’t we come up with more quirks and quarks for him? Margaret’s write up was far more entertaining.
    This has been a tough Lent Madness this year, everyone is so worthy of their halos!!

  27. Kim Rossi's Gravatar Kim Rossi
    March 9, 2018 - 9:07 am | Permalink

    Had to be Richard Hooker for me today.

  28. rm gens's Gravatar rm gens
    March 9, 2018 - 9:11 am | Permalink

    This time I agree with Marcus !He really shows that ideas stand the test of time.

  29. Nancy's Gravatar Nancy
    March 9, 2018 - 9:12 am | Permalink

    Voted for Margaret today, as well as on the earlier round.

  30. March 9, 2018 - 9:15 am | Permalink

    Richard’s generosity of spirit and working to ease contentions gets my vote as well. As a former editor, I also had to support anyone who writes, “a courteous tutor, ready to amend what, in our weakness or our ignorance, we say ill, and to make the most of what we say aright.” An editor’s job, 100%.

    • Lucy Porter's Gravatar Lucy Porter
      March 9, 2018 - 10:39 am | Permalink

      As another former editor, I agree, though I’m not yet sure who will receive my vote.

  31. Terie H's Gravatar Terie H
    March 9, 2018 - 9:15 am | Permalink

    Richard gets my vote: “Salvation is open to everyone…..” including Roman Catholics!

  32. Patrice's Gravatar Patrice
    March 9, 2018 - 9:19 am | Permalink

    We have voted many saints into this round based on compassionate charitable work, such as Margaret’s (and rightly so). This time I’m going for the peace keeper working dilligently in the background and providing words of inspiration that continue to be so relevant today.

  33. Carolyn D. Mack's Gravatar Carolyn D. Mack
    March 9, 2018 - 9:23 am | Permalink

    I am with you , Terie H. Talk about really embodying Elizabeth I’s Middle Way.

  34. William Osborne's Gravatar William Osborne
    March 9, 2018 - 9:26 am | Permalink

    I am again torn asunder by the choice. Margaret was the mother os a noble line, but I have long admired Richard Hooker for his theology. I give him credit for my personal favorite “It is what it is.” So, I guess my vote is for Richard. Sorry, Margaret you, too, are deserving.

  35. Christine CO's Gravatar Christine CO
    March 9, 2018 - 9:30 am | Permalink

    The book, _Scotland, a Concise History_, by Fitzroy Maclean, says “[Margaret} took the Scottish clergy in hand and, to their dismay, sought to impose on them the reigious practices prevalent in England, celibacy, poverty, and so on….in the church, a system of regular diocesan episcopacy gradually began to take shape.” On a visit to Scotland a few years ago, we visited Dunfermline, and happened to park in a car park that was built over St. Margaret’s Cave. This is now accessed by a tunnel under the car park. The cave is set up with a life-size mannikin dressed as Margaret praying at an altar. And like several others on this list, I am a descendant of Margaret. I’m voting for her.

  36. John Lewis's Gravatar John Lewis
    March 9, 2018 - 9:31 am | Permalink

    If some catastrophe should destroy every work of theology written in the last 500 years with a single exception, I would want that book to be Hooker’s “Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity.”His theology is solidly based on the practice of Christianity enshrined in the liturgy, and everything flows from that. And since my besetting sin–at least among those that God has given me grace to be aware of–is that I often respond to challenges with a “disdainful sharpness of wit,” I have a personal reason to invoke St. Richard’s aid!

    • Susan Lee Hauser's Gravatar Susan Lee Hauser
      March 9, 2018 - 9:54 am | Permalink

      That one hit home for me, too, John!

  37. Anne E.B.'s Gravatar Anne E.B.
    March 9, 2018 - 9:35 am | Permalink

    Saint Margaret for the Golden Halo!

  38. Betsey's Gravatar Betsey
    March 9, 2018 - 9:39 am | Permalink

    Many of the comments reflect my feelings .. so hard to choose today! I love all things Scottish, though I’ve a strong Anglophile streak, as well, and voted for Richard Hooker when he was in a past Lent Madness.

    But like another person, I’ve sat in St. Margaret’s Chapel at Edinburgh Castle. Instead of look and leave, I deliberately sat and waited, so in between the other look & leave folk, I experienced the quiet of a chapel first consecrated to God many years ago.

    Margaret received my vote.

  39. March 9, 2018 - 9:40 am | Permalink

    Framer of the theory of the “3 Legged Stool”. “The Church rests upon Scripture, Reason and Tradition and without all of the three being supportive, the stool can not stand.”

  40. March 9, 2018 - 9:40 am | Permalink

    The Saintly Sixteen, I so enjoy this round, it always has additional details on the contenders that was not covered in the Saintly Scorecard. I like most voted for both of these Saints in first round. But, I went with Hooker for a number of different reasons. I especially like his take on “theology of the Eucharist that goes beyond Christ’s presence in the bread and wine” I love how he argues Christ’s presence in the ones receiving the Sacrament are as import as Christ’s presence in the elements. I now have a thirst to read and learn more of Richard Hooker.

  41. Carol's Gravatar Carol
    March 9, 2018 - 9:50 am | Permalink

    We have Hooker to thank for Anglicanism and the via media. That’s enough for me.

  42. Susan's Gravatar Susan
    March 9, 2018 - 9:57 am | Permalink

    I agree with those who felt Margaret was not given her due this time around. That being said, how can I ignore Richard Hooker’s “…by participating in the Eucharist, we participate in the Incarnation.”

  43. Michele May's Gravatar Michele May
    March 9, 2018 - 10:07 am | Permalink

    Margaret is more interesting but her accomplishments seem to consist mainly in the birthing of babies.

    • kelly's Gravatar kelly
      March 9, 2018 - 10:30 am | Permalink

      Then that’s a distorted view of Margaret. She worked tirelessly among the poor and fostered orphans in the castles. She released prisoners who were held for ransom. She built churches and supported abbeys. She consistently used her privilege and influence to help others and to encourage those around her to help as well. She was a humble example of the how the power of good works reaches down through history, and she deserved a better write up than what she got today.

    • Susan Lee Hauser's Gravatar Susan Lee Hauser
      March 9, 2018 - 10:54 am | Permalink

      I was going to say the birthing of babies is nothing to sneeze at, then and now. That’s a wonderful accomplishment!

      • kelly's Gravatar kelly
        March 10, 2018 - 11:43 am | Permalink

        I once heard a saying from medieval France, “Men go to war; women go to bed,” to point out that giving birth was as dangerous for women as soldiering was for men.

        • Donna Devlin's Gravatar Donna Devlin
          March 10, 2018 - 2:47 pm | Permalink

          given the shameful maternal mortality rate in the US now, things apparently haven’t changed much

  44. Mollie Douglas Turner+'s Gravatar Mollie Douglas Turner+
    March 9, 2018 - 10:08 am | Permalink

    As a Douglas descended from Scots like Robert the Bruce and landowners on the Firth of Forth, I wanted to vote for Margaret. But Hooker’s quotes were so wonderful! He had me at “God is no captious sophister!” Such great good sense deserves the Golden Halo, methinks!

    • Elaine Chilcote's Gravatar Elaine Chilcote
      March 9, 2018 - 11:40 am | Permalink

      I think “God is no captious sophister” will lead me to vote for Richard, although I wish so much that I could vote for both.

  45. aleathia nicholson's Gravatar aleathia nicholson
    March 9, 2018 - 10:09 am | Permalink

    Hooker: Christ’s presence in the sacraments and the receiver…”nuff said. I am always needy for Christ’s presence when I’ve had communion or not, being a class A#1 sinner…well, maybe not that bad…well, shall we toss for it?

  46. Laura's Gravatar Laura
    March 9, 2018 - 10:10 am | Permalink

    Margaret has my vote, and I encourage any who have not yet voted to look at her many accomplishments in furthering Christianity. I’ve read that her husband Malcolm was illiterate and not especially pious, but loved her so much that he allowed her charitable acts. I suppose, as king, in those days, he had the option of saying, “Hey, quit that! No more handouts to the poor!”

  47. Fiona's Gravatar Fiona
    March 9, 2018 - 10:10 am | Permalink

    Oh dear, I voted for both in the first round. Today my heart says Margaret, but my head says Hooker. And as I look on the state of the Anglican Communion worldwide, threatened with schism, I think we need to heed Hooker’s words on unity more than ever. Margaret’s write up is excellent, but Richard’s theology of the Eucharist is profound and shapes my own practice. My vote goes to Hooker, in thanksgiving for the joy, comfort, delight and pleasure that Lent Madness gives. ‘Unto life many implements are necessary; more, if we seek such a life as hath in it joy, comfort, delight, and pleasure.’

  48. Mary Jane Jane Ingalls's Gravatar Mary Jane Jane Ingalls
    March 9, 2018 - 10:18 am | Permalink

    I love beginning the day with Lent Madness! Always, MJ

  49. Jane W.'s Gravatar Jane W.
    March 9, 2018 - 10:29 am | Permalink

    I agree that reading the previous information is helpful. It helps paont a more complete and whole picture to guide the votes of myself and my husband. We don’t always vote the same, but one of the guiding factors for us is looking at those who served the poor and needy showing the compassion and love of God. Margaret has my vote today!

  50. Tammie Taylor's Gravatar Tammie Taylor
    March 9, 2018 - 10:37 am | Permalink

    On behalf of all mentors and participants in Education for Ministry, and people around the world who are fans of using God’s gift of reason to work out our own theology, and yes, to simply get along with people who don’t share our opinion, I proudly cast my vote for Richard Hooker. “They that are more fervent to dispute be not always the most able to determine.” Richard Hooker

  51. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    March 9, 2018 - 10:41 am | Permalink

    I honor Margaret, mostly because I visited her chapel and learned some about her that seemed very praiseworthy – I mean, like Sally Fields – I really REALLY like her – I think Hooker’s words (new to me) are exactly what Christians need to hear. Apparently in every age, but particularly now.

  52. March 9, 2018 - 10:49 am | Permalink

    What’s not to like about Lent Madness’ patron saint? Sorry, folks, Margaret’s bio didn’t stir quite like Richard Hooker’s did.

  53. Lucy Porter's Gravatar Lucy Porter
    March 9, 2018 - 10:51 am | Permalink

    I did not know that the Episcopal Church, like my own United Methodist Church, is threatened with worldwide schism. I have long believed that Christ comes to us, first to prepare us to receive, then as we receive, then as we act on the blessing given us, giving love to whoever we encounter. We have much to learn from Richard as well as from Margaret, but I will vote for Richard.

    • Margaret Forsythe's Gravatar Margaret Forsythe
      March 9, 2018 - 8:23 pm | Permalink

      Thank you. It is not just enough to receive the presence of Christ, but to act on that blessing as well.

  54. Beth Parkhurst's Gravatar Beth Parkhurst
    March 9, 2018 - 10:51 am | Permalink

    Margaret, for her achievements as a religious reformer and her service to the poor and to orphans.

  55. Davis Dassori's Gravatar Davis Dassori
    March 9, 2018 - 11:00 am | Permalink

    Richard is a saint for our divisive times, as others have noted. His eucharistic theology accords with, and I assume shaped, theAnglican view that Eucharist is something we do, a process that doesn’t stop with the consecration but continues into the believer. For me it’s essential to say “amen” after receiving the sacrament, because I understand it to be perfected in my acceptance.

    • St. Celia's Gravatar St. Celia
      March 9, 2018 - 12:20 pm | Permalink

      I had a rector stop the service once after the eucharist because the congregation hadn’t said “amen” loudly or enthusiastically enough. He said the eucharist wasn’t valid until we assented, so we better bring our all to the “amen.” That was memorable.

      • Davis Dassori's Gravatar Davis Dassori
        March 9, 2018 - 12:45 pm | Permalink

        To be strictly accurate, I say the “amen” immediately before receiving, in response to “the body/blood of Christ.” This was once a source of consternation to a rookie chalicer in our parish, who froze when I looked at him instead of immediately taking the cup. Thinking quickly, I asked him, “What is this?” He gave the correct answer, I responded and drank, and he moved on with hardly a beat missed.

        • St. Celia's Gravatar St. Celia
          March 9, 2018 - 1:07 pm | Permalink

          If I ever come across you at a communion rail, I am going to walk the other way. “Heal me, O Lord, for my bones are dismayed.”

          • Davis Dassori's Gravatar Davis Dassori
            March 9, 2018 - 11:25 pm | Permalink

            There is no other way.

  56. David Blake's Gravatar David Blake
    March 9, 2018 - 11:03 am | Permalink

    I agree, Hooker’s words ring true – on both “fronts”, against viewpoints of Puritans, and against aspects of Catholicism. If you accept Christ as your Savior, your body must also be filled with the Holy Spirit. Works and faith are inseparable – and discussing the latter without giving any thought to the former is disingenous. And, the leaders of the church do not form a mandatory gateway to God. They are mentors and advisors to stimulate your faith. Penance to achieve salvation is just as hollow as salvation through sola fide without works. Although, honestly, if you want to read Hooker’s work, you may find (as I did) that English of 450 years ago may require slower reading than English of today.

  57. Karen's Gravatar Karen
    March 9, 2018 - 11:05 am | Permalink

    Land of my heart, forever. Scotland the Brave.

  58. March 9, 2018 - 11:11 am | Permalink

    As much as I appreciate Margaret, I must go with Richard today. “There will come a time when three words uttered with charity and meekness shall receive a far more blessed reward than three thousand volumes written with disdainful sharpness of wit.” Yes, yes, and yes again.

  59. Mother and Son's Gravatar Mother and Son
    March 9, 2018 - 11:13 am | Permalink

    Mother and Son, for the first time in an epic showdown of the strength of arms, IT’S ON! Mother votes for Margaret while Son stands firmly behind Richard Hooker. In a long war of grunts and groans the deciding vote was cast in Richard’s favor. Son also had good reason because he works for a “captious sophister.”

  60. March 9, 2018 - 11:15 am | Permalink

    Margaret was wonderful, but I had to go with Richard. His emphasis on charity for others, his focus on what Christians of all backgrounds have in common, his stand against divisiveness during a time of great strife, and his “Middle Way,” really resonated with me. Would that we had a Richard or two in public life to remind us all of our common interests.

  61. Barbara's Gravatar Barbara
    March 9, 2018 - 11:16 am | Permalink

    “There will come a time when three words uttered with charity and meekness shall receive a far more blessed reward than three thousand volumes written with disdainful sharpness of wit.” Words to live by.

  62. Judith Crossett's Gravatar Judith Crossett
    March 9, 2018 - 11:17 am | Permalink

    long ago–as a graduate student–I worked on the Folger/Harvard edition of Richard Hooker (long story). Hooker may use a lot of words, but he reads aloud easily; his sentences always make sense. Richard Hooker, for his words, for giving us the Anglican church with a treasure of reason at its foundation; for his claiming the unity of all our belief.

  63. Frank's Gravatar Frank
    March 9, 2018 - 11:19 am | Permalink

    Got to vote for Margaret:
    High in the misty Highlands,
    Out by the purple islands,
    Brave are the hearts that beat
    Beneath Scottish skies.

    • Susan Lee Hauser's Gravatar Susan Lee Hauser
      March 9, 2018 - 11:31 am | Permalink

      Nice, Frank!

  64. Margaret D's Gravatar Margaret D
    March 9, 2018 - 11:23 am | Permalink

    Another difficult choice, but, thanks to all of you who reminded me of Margaret’s good work, I decided to stick with my namesake. Thank you all for that.

  65. Bet Byrd's Gravatar Bet Byrd
    March 9, 2018 - 11:29 am | Permalink

    As I recall Shakespeare, Macbeth’s wife would not make sainthood. Doubtless he exaggerrated. (SPelling is among the first things to go!)

    • March 9, 2018 - 5:37 pm | Permalink

      FYI, Shakespeare did not base the character of Macbeth on Margaret’s husband Malcolm. Malcolm himself appears as (another) character in the play. In fact, Malcolm defeats Macbeth in the end and becomes king.

  66. JE Kaufman's Gravatar JE Kaufman
    March 9, 2018 - 11:29 am | Permalink

    Much as I dearly love Margaret of Scotland, I can’t imagine not voting for Richard Hooker. Alas.

  67. Ray's Gravatar Ray
    March 9, 2018 - 11:29 am | Permalink

    Hooker squeaked by to get my vote, especially after reading, “salvation is open to all, including (cue the dramatic music) Roman Catholics” Raised as an RC, this mightily appealed to me! But I love Margaret, too, so it was a tough choice.

  68. Susan Lee Hauser's Gravatar Susan Lee Hauser
    March 9, 2018 - 11:30 am | Permalink

    If we’re to vote based on the quotes and quirks of our two saints today, we must choose between Margaret’s quirks and Richard’s quotes. Margaret’s got quirks in spades. Anyone who’s ever spilled coffee or wine on her favorite book can certainly appreciate the miracle of pulling that bejeweled gospel book out of the river and its surviving to be displayed in the Bodleian Library some 1100 years later! The stories about Margaret’s head landing here and there, and the possibilities for advancement in midwifery with its mere presence are–well, mad. And how cool is that connection to the Scottish Play?

    Now Richard’s legacy is marvelous, but there’s not much quirkiness there. He does show up in the top 10 of the Dead Anglican Theologians Society, and there is a very cool statue of him at Exeter Cathedral, sitting with his legs crossed (not on a three-legged stool, alas) and a book in his lap. He also had a very impressive hipster-worthy beard.

    I imagine the saintly kitsch for Margaret would be amazing compared to that of dear Richard. Still . . . it’s a MADDENING choice.

    • St. Celia's Gravatar St. Celia
      March 9, 2018 - 4:44 pm | Permalink

      I am going to be deeply disappointed if in the kitsch round there isn’t some version of “Porn Stars for Hooker” or a Photoshopped newspaper report with a headline of “BREAKING NEWS FROM CANTERBURY CATHEDRAL: Richard Hooker’s personal attorney used Hooker’s local parish email while arranging to transfer money by mule into an account at a London bank before he toted 130,000 gold crowns in unmarked vellum bags to adult morality play star Stormy Daniels to buy her silence.”

      • Susan Lee Hauser's Gravatar Susan Lee Hauser
        March 9, 2018 - 7:21 pm | Permalink

        I think you need to get busy with that. I’m sure Marcus would appreciate all the help he can get, if RH makes it that far!

        • St. Celia's Gravatar St. Celia
          March 9, 2018 - 8:15 pm | Permalink

          There is in fact a “Hooker cocktail” (named for John Lee Hooker):

          1 oz Glenmorangie Original Scotch
          1 oz Byrrh
          2 dashes Fee Brother’s Whiskey Barrel Bitters
          1 oz Eagle Rare Bourbon
          Stir. Pour in coupe glass, up. Garnish with orange peel.

          This drink is called “aggressive, savory, and adventurous.” Not sure it’s quite the via media, but glad to be of help for the kitsch round!

          • Susan Lee Hauser's Gravatar Susan Lee Hauser
            March 9, 2018 - 11:17 pm | Permalink

            Byrrh is a new one for me–not to be confused with myrrh, apparently! Good find!

          • Davis Dassori's Gravatar Davis Dassori
            March 9, 2018 - 11:42 pm | Permalink

            Thanks for this Revelation.

          • Davis Dassori's Gravatar Davis Dassori
            March 9, 2018 - 11:49 pm | Permalink

            Forget that comment. I was mixing Revelation up with Second Corinthians . . . Night night.

          • St. Celia's Gravatar St. Celia
            March 10, 2018 - 1:39 am | Permalink

            Have you heard the one about the two Corinthians who entered a bar and ordered a Hooker? The bartender says: That’s the one with myrrh in it, right? They say, No, Byrrh. Bartender says: Beer? They say, No: Byrrh. Bartender says: That’s a revelation, because I was about to pour you one bourbon, one scotch, one beer!

  69. Bet Byrd's Gravatar Bet Byrd
    March 9, 2018 - 11:30 am | Permalink

    oh dear. reading correctly is the first to go!!

  70. Wynne Osborne's Gravatar Wynne Osborne
    March 9, 2018 - 11:40 am | Permalink

    I love Margaret and gave her my vote. But Richard Hooker is a deserving saint too. No ranting from this peanut gallery.

  71. Tobu's Gravatar Tobu
    March 9, 2018 - 11:41 am | Permalink

    Count me as likewise disappointed in Margaret’s write-up today! She did so much more than be royal and birth royals. She survived a frightening childhood and a marriage to an older, famously dangerous man, and through her intelligence and force of will, she was able to not only regain control of her own life, but use her newfound position of power to improve the lives of countless others. She was an exemplar of privilege used for good, tirelessly working to spread Christianity and literacy and education, founding churches and schools, working with her own hands among the poor and pouring out the royal coffers to assist them, and turning her husband’s mind from selfish concerns toward the betterment of his nation. Even as tragedy after tragedy caused her to outlive most of those royal children of hers, her faith remained strong. There’s a good reason why so many churches are named for her!

    I’m all for fair competition, but if she falls to the worthy Hooker today because of the omission from her profile here of all her hard work and struggle on behalf of her subjects, which makes it seem as though she did little else but sit on a throne and a birthing stool, I’ll be deeply frustrated!

    • Katharine's Gravatar Katharine
      March 9, 2018 - 5:50 pm | Permalink

      I wish *you* had done the write-up for Margaret today!

  72. Judy Bye's Gravatar Judy Bye
    March 9, 2018 - 11:42 am | Permalink

    Oh come back, Richard Hooker. Specifically to the Diocese of South Carolina, (The one that stole the name–which is the new one trying to keep the buildings and all). For they do not know you. However, a wonderful congregation has been born with all the ones who were kicked out of their churches. When you arrive the first thing you see is lots and lots of flags in perfect form lined up across the front of the USC chapel at Myrtle Beach. American, Episcopal and Rainbow flags. At least 15. Big flags. They started meeting with just a few and have run out of chairs. It is a joy-filled congregation. I have visited once. I can’t wait to go back. Mike has supplied there. You wouldn’t believe what happened to make me stay in Richmond, VA when my plan for over 30 years was to live in our condo in Myrtle Beach. Marcus Halley shared with us the best of Richard Hooker for the church today. In SC the Episcopal church has been torn asunder. Pray for her. Oh. Lorelei, the two year old Mito child who had 4 viruses in 49 days. Who stopped breathing twice, was intubated and tube fed–is learning how to operate a 400 lb. wheel chair that steers with joy sticks. Check it out on FB at Friday’s with Lorelei. Real life, real prayers, real miracles. I’ve asked you to pray for her and we still need a cure for Mito. Thanks.

  73. Yet another margaret's Gravatar Yet another margaret
    March 9, 2018 - 11:47 am | Permalink

    Margaret is the choice for today. Richard sounds just a teensy bit pompous to me. — and misguided.

    • Davis Dassori's Gravatar Davis Dassori
      March 9, 2018 - 12:28 pm | Permalink

      I don’t get either part of that. As to “misguided,” you’ll have to unpack that in order to be understood. As to “pompous,” I see a person who was earnest, loving, conciliatory, described by his first biographer as “our . . . Meek and patient Mr Hooker.” He wrote in a style resembling the way some pompous people still write today, but in the 1590s that was how ordinary educated people wrote.

  74. Becky Smith's Gravatar Becky Smith
    March 9, 2018 - 11:54 am | Permalink

    I’m always predisposed to vote for the “Godly Play” saints. Not to mention my Scottish ancestry, my sister and aunt Margaret, and grandmother Marguerite. I am encouraged by those who manage to squeeze through the eye of the needle. Margaret of Scotland for me this morning.

    • Susan Lee Hauser's Gravatar Susan Lee Hauser
      March 9, 2018 - 3:19 pm | Permalink

      I didn’t know there were materials for the saints in Godly Play. Thank you for enlightening me.

  75. Miss Jan's Gravatar Miss Jan
    March 9, 2018 - 11:57 am | Permalink

    Hard choice, but for defending the BCP, the Englishman gets my vote over the Scottish queen.

  76. Peggy's Gravatar Peggy
    March 9, 2018 - 11:59 am | Permalink

    While I liked Richard better after reading today’s post, I still have no choice. Margaret must vote for Margaret.

  77. Alethea Eason's Gravatar Alethea Eason
    March 9, 2018 - 12:04 pm | Permalink

    I taught at St. Margaret’s British School for Girls in Concon, Chile. Her work goes on.

  78. St. Celia's Gravatar St. Celia
    March 9, 2018 - 12:05 pm | Permalink

    I almost voted for Margaret of Scotland simply because she lost her head in the French Revolution. But I did not consider it a miracle that a jeweled prayer book was found again; that would be worth so much that people would dive all day for it. Somehow the idea that rich people’s belongings turn up again does not surprise. But Hooker: to use human reason to develop theology that includes both Protestant and Roman Catholic, to favor humility and charity when communicating, to establish the via media by which Anglicanism is known–those are major achievements worth a vote today. Hooker for me today (without a single prostitute joke).

    • Susan Lee Hauser's Gravatar Susan Lee Hauser
      March 9, 2018 - 1:46 pm | Permalink

      Ah, but the miracle of that gospel book was that it survived intact. I still grieve that the prayer book I received at my confirmation was soaked through by spilled water on the kitchen counter. The pages stuck together and are still wrinkled and warped almost 30 years later.

      • St. Celia's Gravatar St. Celia
        March 9, 2018 - 2:02 pm | Permalink

        I knocked a full cup of tea into Luke. I now always know where Luke is; those pages will never come unwrinkled. However, I suppose Margaret’s book was filled with vellum. Calfskin or sheepskin would withstand water much better than mere paper. Only risk would be that the ink would run . . .

        • Susan Lee Hauser's Gravatar Susan Lee Hauser
          March 9, 2018 - 3:11 pm | Permalink

          You make a good point about the vellum. I’ve tried my hand at illuminated manuscripts a couple times–on paper–and the thought of the ink work running is an unspeakable horror!

        • Davis Dassori's Gravatar Davis Dassori
          March 9, 2018 - 11:39 pm | Permalink

          I’m going to get some Byrrh and pour it onto Second Corinthians.

          • Miss Jan's Gravatar Miss Jan
            March 10, 2018 - 12:51 am | Permalink


          • St. Celia's Gravatar St. Celia
            March 10, 2018 - 1:43 am | Permalink

            ah ha ha, I would make it a Bass so they can go fishing

          • Davis Dassori's Gravatar Davis Dassori
            March 10, 2018 - 10:58 am | Permalink

            I was actually thinking of First Corinthians, of which an especially turgid part has constituted the Daily Office readings for the last couple of weeks, but “Second” seemed to me to have a better rhythm. My first thought had actually been Revelation, but it could have been anything: I was writing purely for effect. There’s an untranslatable German poem about a weasel sitting on a pebble amid the babbling of a brook — why? For the sake of the rhyme! (In German the three nouns are Wiesel, Kiesel, and Bachgeriesel).
            For further background, refer above to an exceptionally mad exchange that started at 11:30 am and went on till 1:39 this morning.

  79. Edna Thomas's Gravatar Edna Thomas
    March 9, 2018 - 12:18 pm | Permalink

    RIchard Hooker: “…appealed to reason and tolerance, suggesting that Christians in conflict should consider more of what we have in common over that which separates us. ” Enough said!

  80. Carol's Gravatar Carol
    March 9, 2018 - 12:33 pm | Permalink

    I’m sorely disappointed in Margaret’s blogger today, focusing pretty much only on the royal pedigree and neglecting what she did. In order to get truer pictures it might be good to return to the original posts. Seems like Margaret’s blogger is “stacking the deck” for Hooker. Not to take away from him but she was much more than a privileged royal.

    • James Oppenheimer's Gravatar James Oppenheimer
      March 9, 2018 - 10:54 pm | Permalink

      Margaret was wont to disappear for a time, going to a quiet place to pray (it is still accessible today). King Malcolm wondered what she was up to, and so one day followed her. He found her deep in prayer, and, moved by this, he always made sure to allow her all the solitude she wished, and he also supported her in her many works for the less fortunate.
      A car park was installed on the land above where Margaret’s grotto is, and in the process, the only entrance was covered. A new access was installed via a long (very long) tunnel, with many pictures from her life. The grotto itself is as it was (very, very simple), except that they could not resist adding a kneeling female figure.

      It’s a very special addition to the fascinating city of Dunfermline, burial place of Margaret and a succession of Scottish kings, including Robert the Bruce, whose place of burial is under the main altar.

  81. Felipe's Gravatar Felipe
    March 9, 2018 - 12:33 pm | Permalink

    What three words did Richard have in mind? I love you?

    • Michelle's Gravatar Michelle
      March 9, 2018 - 2:19 pm | Permalink

      I wondered the same thing, Felipe.

  82. Jon Moore's Gravatar Jon Moore
    March 9, 2018 - 12:35 pm | Permalink

    Had to go with Richard Hooker; because I am currently doing a paper on the Protestant Reformation and he has been very much in my research.

  83. Constance Santana's Gravatar Constance Santana
    March 9, 2018 - 12:40 pm | Permalink

    All credit to Marcus Halley because I never doubted I would vote for Margaret. But then there was nothing in Neva Fox’s write up that called Margaret to sainthood. Raised RC I was sure Hooker was not (my understanding of) a saintly man. Whoa! Count me among many today who can now say, we are hooked on Hooker! Loved several of the cited quotes. Those quotes got my attention and Hooker got my vote.

  84. Random dude 101's Gravatar Random dude 101
    March 9, 2018 - 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Richard Hooker 4 da win!! Guys vote for Richy Please!

    • James Oppenheimer's Gravatar James Oppenheimer
      March 9, 2018 - 10:55 pm | Permalink

      Well, since he’s a guy, I guess that’s that….

      • Davis Dassori's Gravatar Davis Dassori
        March 9, 2018 - 11:31 pm | Permalink

        These days “guy,” especially in the plural, is increasingly gender-inclusive. It’s the latest step in the English language’s forlorn quest to recover the singular-plural distinction it lost in the 17th century. Sunt lacrimae linguarum.

  85. john w miller's Gravatar john w miller
    March 9, 2018 - 1:01 pm | Permalink

    IN the on-going struggle of Christian divisions, he is a great example of tolerance with good listening skills. something sorely missed in our times.

  86. March 9, 2018 - 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Let us make the most of what we say right. Would that those who profess the Christian faith were able to apply this sentiment toward people of all faiths who demonstrate God’s love for our world.

  87. Karen Mallon Sharp's Gravatar Karen Mallon Sharp
    March 9, 2018 - 1:13 pm | Permalink

    That sort of happened once st my former parish!

  88. Karen Mallon Sharp's Gravatar Karen Mallon Sharp
    March 9, 2018 - 1:16 pm | Permalink

    It’s the Great Amen.

    • Karen Mallon Sharp's Gravatar Karen Mallon Sharp
      March 9, 2018 - 1:24 pm | Permalink

      Just before the Lord’s Prayer.

  89. Timothy Rake's Gravatar Timothy Rake
    March 9, 2018 - 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Anyone with the least connection to Shakespeare is good enough for me!

  90. Pam Payne's Gravatar Pam Payne
    March 9, 2018 - 1:34 pm | Permalink

    It was another tough round, but I came down on the side of “three words spoken in charity” will overcome 3000 spoken in hate, ignorance and distain. Thank you to Richard Hooker.

  91. Barbara MacRobie's Gravatar Barbara MacRobie
    March 9, 2018 - 3:11 pm | Permalink

    I’m even more of a Richard Hooker fan after reading all the quotes in the blog and comments. Not only profound thoughts, but beautifully expressed! Continuing the great BCP tradition of a splendid way with language. I think I need a bumper sticker saying “God is no captious sophister.”

    But as I cast my vote for Richard, I am so glad to have learned about Margaret of Scotland. When in sixth grade I was confirmed, I picked Margaret as my confirmation name because I’d just read a book about Margaret Mary Alacoque and found her appealing, but she long ceased to resonate so strongly with me. It would be tacky to toss her aside, but I’m now going to add Margaret of Scotland as a co-patron. Now I’ve got contemplation + action! Thank you, SEC.

    • March 9, 2018 - 8:10 pm | Permalink

      That WOULD make for a fun bumper sticker!

      • Davis Dassori's Gravatar Davis Dassori
        March 9, 2018 - 11:33 pm | Permalink

        Or a motto on a coffee mug.

  92. Mel's Gravatar Mel
    March 9, 2018 - 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Neva: “Therefore, like many others, Margaret’s head was lost in the French Revolution.” …. I just can’t stop laughing 🙂

  93. PaulaB's Gravatar PaulaB
    March 9, 2018 - 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Margaret all the way!

  94. Mary W.'s Gravatar Mary W.
    March 9, 2018 - 3:52 pm | Permalink

    I really really wanted to go with Margaret after that comment about losing her head in the French Revolution, but Hooker’s writings are just too relevant to today’s situation to not vote for him.

  95. Jane's Gravatar Jane
    March 9, 2018 - 4:42 pm | Permalink

    I pondered long and hard on my vote. Today’s writings were very unequal in the depth and detail for each . Margaret’s was a quick skim. I enjoyed Hooker’s and felt the quotations used were excellent and made me lean in that direction. I took some extra time and re-read the bios in the Scorecard and then dug deeper for Margaret and found an 1896 edition/translation of the Bishop of Tourget? Life of Margaret. I can see why there were no direct quotations for Margaret. Unless one would be able to access Margaret’s personal letters or journals, the earliest life only quotes Margaret as quoting the Bible. Wonderful, but no real sense of the woman herself. However, her great piety supported the lifelong devotion to works of setting captives free, reforming the church, civilizing a husband and raising Godly children to be Godly kings and queens. In addition to those lifelong works, there is her rebuilding Iona, and building churches, feeding the poor and orphaned daily before her own meal, and leading the way to better lives for all who fell under the rule of Margaret and her husband, who was said to have been highly influenced by his wife. So while Richard Hooker indeed seems to be a man who is needed for today’s chaos, I suppose I have a “girl power” prejudice. Margaret for me.

    • Diane in Maine's Gravatar Diane in Maine
      March 10, 2018 - 8:09 am | Permalink

      Now that’s advocating!

  96. Barbara Gay's Gravatar Barbara Gay
    March 9, 2018 - 5:02 pm | Permalink

    my dear cousin, with Scottish ancestry, is named Margaret, so had to vote for the Saint. But will not be disappointed if Hooker moves forward. I agree his message very much needs to be heard today.

  97. Donna Devlin's Gravatar Donna Devlin
    March 9, 2018 - 5:52 pm | Permalink

    Hooker with the “seeds of eternity”. I LOVE that Margaret rea to her illiterate husband in the last round but Hooker swept me away this time.

  98. Donna Devlin's Gravatar Donna Devlin
    March 9, 2018 - 5:57 pm | Permalink

    Over the weekend, in honor of the upcoming (then) Saintly Sixteen I changed my dark, gold tinged nail polish for a medium shade of purple with a plethora of saintly sparkles. GO SAINTS!!

  99. Colette Clark's Gravatar Colette Clark
    March 9, 2018 - 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Hooker for the gold and Margaret for the silver and a soup mug – please! They are my two favorites;so sorry they are paired here.

  100. Donna Devlin's Gravatar Donna Devlin
    March 9, 2018 - 6:22 pm | Permalink

    A shout out to Jack Zamboni and his wonderful words from the Canadian PB!

  101. Carolyn's Gravatar Carolyn
    March 9, 2018 - 6:29 pm | Permalink

    Hooker’s wonderful understanding – and description – of the Eucharist make him my choice. Besides, his last name makes a great password for our church’s security system! And Hooker and Cranmer were the names of our former rector’s cats.

  102. Isabelle's Gravatar Isabelle
    March 9, 2018 - 6:41 pm | Permalink

    My fellow parishoners and I at St. Margaret’s Episcopal Church in Washington DC KNOW how amazingly devoted Margaret was in following the tenets of Jesus and changing lives for the entire kingdom of Scotland, and beyond. She exemplified charity by re-routing funds from her husband’s coffers to assist the poor and took clothes off of her own back and her ladies to give to the naked and under-clothed, just to name a few (see commenters above where her good works are more articulately enumerated) I am sorry that the SEC did not give a balanced write up of Margaret to allow her to hold her own against Richard Hooker, impressive as he was, and timely as his message. Just because she does not have many quotations or writings of her own (not surprising given the times and her sex!) does not mean she isn’t every bit as Christian and loving, so while Richard’s message and the Eucharist, etc. were awesome, I had to vote for our matron saint, Margaret.

  103. Lisa Keppeler's Gravatar Lisa Keppeler
    March 9, 2018 - 7:36 pm | Permalink

    For seeing the seeds of eternity in all of the faithful, and for painting an expansive, all-embracing portrait of God’s grace, it’s Richard Hooker for me.

  104. Patricia Nakamura's Gravatar Patricia Nakamura
    March 9, 2018 - 7:43 pm | Permalink

    This is difficult! I love them both.

  105. March 9, 2018 - 8:08 pm | Permalink

    “There will come a time when three words uttered with charity and meekness shall receive a far more blessed reward than three thousand volumes written with disdainful sharpness of wit.” That was the topper for me! Go forth, Richard, to the next round.

    • Pat's Gravatar Pat
      March 9, 2018 - 10:25 pm | Permalink


  106. Diana Wright's Gravatar Diana Wright
    March 9, 2018 - 9:49 pm | Permalink

    Has there been a Dummies version “Of the Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity”? I think today’s politicians would be well served to read it but fear they would flounder trying to read the original, given the reading level of today’s average politician!! Go Richard

  107. Timothy J. Mannion's Gravatar Timothy J. Mannion
    March 9, 2018 - 10:14 pm | Permalink

    Richard was a smart, reasonable man.

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